Curse

DarkWasp · Jun 21, 2005, 08:31 PM // 20:31

After about 8 rounds of trapping in the underworld I have run across quite a bit of information I'd like to share.

Ok well first with the common fears. (Not my fears, but the common fears)

1. Arena.net nerfing traps. (I personaly am not afraid of this because a good normal group in the Underworld is much much faster and efficient)

2. Not getting healed. (This is a bit of a concern because when the Aataxes/Smite crawlers break through your traps you kind of end up dieing. Simpily hire a monk or get people to bring healing spring and have everyone use it and stand in a little ball)

3. One smite sets of your traps while the others break through. (THIS IS A MAJOR PROBLEM, fact is rangers are not to good against smites, what you need is a luring ranger that will use whirling defense and RUN IN! The ranger must have all the smites bunched up or you waisted time on all those traps)

4. Energy. (Its best to have high level expertise if you are going to be trapping, if you want a necro to help with that it helps if he/she also has traps)

Ok now, lets move on to a few tips. (That I have come up with)

Serpants Quickness - This one is a given, acquired from Lions Arch

Druid's Armor - It helps to have the 32 energy

3 sets of traps maximum - Do not attempt 4 sets by now the other traps will be exploding and if the lurer is luring and you are sitting upfront still trapping, you screwed up the lure! (Sets = all traps on your bar, if you have 4 traps you will lay about 12 traps)

Watch for Coldfire Nights and Aataxes on patrol - These two types of beasts dont lure well, so if you think you can get them in your traps with your smites/darknesses, you are mistaken.

Patience - This is a little something rangers have that warriors dont, however there are a few impatient rangers, if your trying to work out your team and explain the rules/roles and you hear little Jimmy yelling "Gogogogogogogogogogo GO! GO NOW! HURRY! JUST GO!", well you are much better off showing little Jimmy your boot.

Ressurect - if you only have a few Primary/Secondary monks in your group, you would want to bring a signet.

My build: - -

Skills
"SpikeTrap-BarbedTrap-DustTrap-FlameTrap-HealingSpring-Glyph(lesser)-MeteorShower-SerpantsQuickness"

Use

Well Obviously the traps are used for trapping and Healing Spring I will use in a battle zone if im not being attacked. I use the Glyph and Meteor Shower for those enemys that got past the traps and bunched up in an area (Not attacking me with interupts). And the Quickness is used to make my traps recharge faster.

Artibutes

When I go trapping I change them around to

Fire - 8
Expertise - 11
Wildernes Survival - 12
Marksmanship - 9
(With runes)

I hope this helps.

Volarian · Jun 21, 2005, 08:46 PM // 20:46

Actually I've found that it's not that hard - provided you have experienced and patient players.
1 Ranger (or two), 3 Wars, 2 Eles, 2 Monks

A couple traps, with Wars acting as meat shields, Monks to buff them or the lureer, when they hit trap(s), AOE, Monks throw down the heals...in seconds the fight is over...rinse and repeat. I think the key is for the Eles/Ranger types to be aware of the mob and not stand there trying to get shot/spell off if they are agro'd....cause we all know they won't last long against a smite.

arnansnow · Jun 21, 2005, 08:47 PM // 20:47

Are traps and pulling the only thing rangers are needed for later in the game?

Tellani Artini · Jun 21, 2005, 08:50 PM // 20:50

I think he's talking about an all-trapper team, not a traditional "balanced" team with a trapper or two.

Volarian · Jun 21, 2005, 08:52 PM // 20:52

Ah....you may be right, I guess I didn't take that spin on it since I've not played pure Ranger before.........duh ....how many times in TOA have I heard people recruiting for pure ranger groups.

grimmolly · Jun 21, 2005, 08:54 PM // 20:54

Winter is nice on the fire islands. Distracting shot is also fun against the healing signet that gets used a lot there. Otherwise you can hang back most places and barrage. Barrage + judge's insight is probably fun, too.

Reiden Argrock · Jun 21, 2005, 09:07 PM // 21:07

Rangers were outcasted by most because people only wanted w/mo healing monks and air ele's, so everyone else was outcasted, most just whined about it, but some ranger's used their minds and created the trapper build

which actually turned out to seriously own lots of unprepared people in pvp and also worked awesomely well in pve. Now rangers are wanted again

which is a good thing.

Volarian · Jun 21, 2005, 09:27 PM // 21:27

Hey I love them in UW - in fact when I go down there with a group who doesn't have a Ranger....I'm counting down the minutes til I'm back in TOA...lol

stumpy · Jun 21, 2005, 09:33 PM // 21:33

Two nights ago ... we built a 7 ranger trapping group with 1 Necro. We did well ... cleared the path to the gate on the smite run. 1 player dropped right away ... (a n00b who had a lack of faith with our 1 ressurect R/Mo) ...

We faired very well ... but late into the hours of the night we were all getting tired and one had to go to work ... so we eventually let loose with shouts of LLLLEEEERRROOOOOYYY and whirling defense until we at last died.

Only having one ranger is okay ... but my point is that having more than one ... does in fact help groups. Thanks to all I got to party with, it was fun ... Xgammon

EDIT ---------------------

Oh yeah and compliments on Tellani on your ingenuity build I read on the other forum

Ollj · Jun 21, 2005, 09:54 PM // 21:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by arnansnow

Are traps and pulling the only thing rangers are needed for later in the game?

healers heal.
eles use lightnings.
Mesmers dominate.
Necros are death.
Rangers have no purpose.
Warriors do the most damage.

this game is full of FALSE simplifications!

Sakura · Jun 21, 2005, 11:25 PM // 23:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by stumpy

We faired very well ... but late into the hours of the night we were all getting tired and one had to go to work ... so we eventually let loose with shouts of LLLLEEEERRROOOOOYYY and whirling defense until we at last died.

haha I love it.
LEEEEEEEEEROOYYY JENKINNSSS
^^

Howling Wind · Jun 22, 2005, 12:05 AM // 00:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ollj

healers heal.
eles use lightnings.
Mesmers dominate.
Necros are death.
Rangers have no purpose.
Warriors do the most damage.

this game is full of FALSE simplifications!

Wouldn't say warriors do the most damage, its got to be the ele. The ranger can just about rival a warrior in terms of DPS in a lot of the cases we have kindle and rituals to change the damage type of elements. True most groups still don't understand them but they are really helpful and can do many things if asked.

If traps weren't easily interuptable...it would have been great, in fact too good.

Neo-LD · Jun 22, 2005, 12:11 AM // 00:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkWasp

Serpants Quickness - This one is a given, acquired from Lions Arch

=( I know. But what to take out of my build?:

Flame Trap
Barb Trap
Dust Trap
Poison Arrow (E)
Healing Spring
Mantra of Resolve
Inspired Hex
Drain Enchantment

The last two skills are for replenishing energy while actively helping teammates. Mantra of Resolve is amazing for trappers, dont know why more dont use it. it is also the reason that I need good energy gain spells. I know I need Serpents Quickness, but what should I take out?

Valerius · Jun 22, 2005, 12:28 AM // 00:28

this is my trapping build...

Exp : 14
Marks : 7
Wilderness : 16

- Poison Arrow
- Troll Unguent
- Whirling Defence
- Serpents Quickness
- Barbed Trap
- Flame Trap
- Dust Trap
- Rebirth

Falconer · Jun 22, 2005, 01:04 AM // 01:04

He has the right of it... for a while there. NOBODY and I mean NOBODY wanted a ranger in an UW/fissure group. You'd see requests for LFG and all that, with an explicit no rangers need apply.

So the rangers just went their own way and formed their own little group. As some have said this typically took the form of a lot of trappers (because it's the easiest to coordinate). But you can also do well with damage and barrage rangers in the mix. And even a healing ra/mo does very well PROVIDED THEY KNOW WHEN *NOT* TO USE HEALING ENCHANTMENTS! (but some people just never learn... those mesmers shatter those enchantments and kill the person they're trying to heal...).

Best advice I can give..
Coordinate the group in advance.
Know what everyones roles are... if you're a tank.. you need to know how to block and draw aggro.
Everyone should have 8 ranks in survival and bring a healing spring at least. You get 8 rangers standing in a tight ball with good discipline... and nothing is killing em... there should be roughly 2-4 healing springs going non-stop and it'll be very hard for most critters to kill them off. You effectivey have mroe healing power than most monks can ever provide inside this healball.
A monk is nice, but hardly necesary provided the above healing spring rule is followed.

Seriously... 8 rangers together... standing in their own healing springs... and dropping traps and PB AoE's will kill smites off quite nicely. No need to even attack... they'll stand around you cast reversal of fortunes.. hit everyone with dinky zealots fire damage (you're a ranger... you're taking half flame damage remember)... while they burn to death. But that requires discipline... teaching people not to run away but to stand in a tight ball and let the mesmers come to you was the hard thing. People were dying MORE when they ran than when they held their ground.

Good plan for an all ranger or mostly ranger group... conflagration... congratulations everyone has 100 armor... and those who don't can plan accordingly... EG: bring mantra of flame for free energy and according damage reduction.

I don't like serpents quickness... it's ONLY usefull for getting down a few extra traps at the start of a fight. It's MORE important to be able to get traps down after things are through the fight and half-dead. It won't help you do that... only a skill like whirling or similar will let you do that. It's also inherently greedy... if people really need faster recycles... in an all ranger group quickening zephyr is a much stronger option. If costs are a problem... also bring energizing winds... (all skills now cost 10 energy... even the 5 energy ones.. be forewarned... but for a trapping group... this isn't a huge problem as they're all using 10, 15, and 25 energy skills to begin with). Those 2 skills have now covered the entire party with ~33% faster trap recycle times, and all traps cost 10 energy (well excepting dust trap which still ends up costing less than normal... ((25 * 1.3)-15)*expertise~= 8 energy at 14expertise.

A single Ra/Mo specced in healing/survival/expertise can typically handle all the healing problems over and above the healball in fact. Just bring word of healing* (really you should only need to heal people under half) and orison. You can use storm chaser to get a lot of good energy (especially if conflagration is in play), as well as a run away skill so that you can run away and come back to rez in dire circumstances.

Also don't think you're the exception... nothing upset an all ranger group I was in more than a single Ra/El who thought he was god's gift to the group.. Was under the impression that he was the only thing killing things.. and who couldn't get it through his thick head... to A wait behind the traps and not move up with the trappers. B. attacking smites with shield of judgement was getting him killed. And C. we were sick of healing him rather than offensively trapping the stupid smites.

Lastly... forget the silly stupid smite runs... I've seen more good stuff drop off other stuff than I have ever seen drop off the smite crawlers. At one point that was good run... but no longer.

Not since alpha testing have I been in a group to completely clear the UW. I'd love to get in a good PUG just once and do every quest. Typically someone ends up having to drop.. or crashes/drops... or someone ends up getting tired and breaking the group by intentional poor play. (nothing upset me more once than the mo/w who intentionally pulled out a bow and aggroed every aatxe in sight on the party).

drowningfish999 · Jun 22, 2005, 01:47 AM // 01:47

I'll post my typical trapper build just for the fun of it. I've been on lots of trapping runs and those are the runs I'm usually the most succesful in.

Whirling Defence
Spike Trap
Barbed Trap
Dust Trap
Flame Trap
Troll Ungent/Healing Springs
Throw Dirt
Rez Signet/Serpent's Quicknesss/Dual Shot

Usually if we have a monk primary or lots of secondarys I'll take Troll and Dual Shot. Otherwise we need all the group healing we can get. I usually don't take Serpent's Quickness since I always forget to use it anyway. XD

Neo-LD · Jun 22, 2005, 12:02 PM // 12:02

Just 2 things. First, a few tips (a guide) as to how to trap vs other people would be nice.

2nd, a traper with a mes secondary has a god-like skill called mantra of resolve. As Falconer stated, Serpents Quickness is not required, and actually isnt all that useful anyways. A very good alternative is to use mantra of resolve as your stance, which makes it impossible for people to interupt your traps. (very handy =) Only needs recast every ~ minute. Only bad thing is that it makes your ranger into a 4 attribute char, but thats not sooooo terrile anyways.

Canook · Jun 22, 2005, 03:41 PM // 15:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ollj

healers heal.
eles use lightnings.
Mesmers dominate.
Necros are death.
Rangers have no purpose.
Warriors do the most damage.

this game is full of FALSE simplifications!

i won the HoH yesterday with 3 monks, 4 rangers, and one necro. that is one of the stupidest comments ive ever come across.

BigTru · Jun 22, 2005, 07:06 PM // 19:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkWasp

Patience - This is a little something rangers have that warriors dont

Shutup, I'm tired of people classifying an entire proffesion not based on it's skill attributes, but the individual that play it.

A good Warrior does take time, patience, and skill. If you say otherwise, then A) You have never played Warrior and are going on a false assumption, or B) You sucked at playing Warrior.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ollj

healers heal.
eles use lightnings.
Mesmers dominate.
Necros are death.
Rangers have no purpose.
Warriors do the most damage.

this game is full of FALSE simplifications!

Healers don't heal??? I think you mean Monks don't always heal... and if so, that's kinda strange you mistakenly put healer instead of monk, because it's your natural instinct to think they heal...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Canook

i won the HoH yesterday with 3 monks, 4 rangers, and one necro. that is one of the stupidest comments ive ever come across.

Did you actually read his post? FALSE simplification...

Now that I'm done with flam-err...correcting, I have a question.

I have been in a trapper group to UW as a W/Mo (Felt like dead weight till we got to smites, everything was vaporized before I could even tank

) with 7 other Rangers.

I was wondering what is the minimum amount of rangers to do this. I regularly do UW in groups of 4-5. That seems like the best way to get drops, however, the Ranger group does interest me. Could this be done in a group of 6 elite rangers? Or would the Damage Output from the traps be too low (not being able to instantly kill the creature, that is)

Also, I feel this definitaly should not be nerfed. How is this any differant than a group of Air Eles counting down to blast that one warrior at the same time in a spike group? It takes strategy and communication - that's what this game is about.